Forum:Has anyone thought about how old Wrex really is?
So I've decided to break away from the current mainstream topics, and talk about something really interesting, my dear friend Wrex. Now, as far as I know we're not given a definite date or even year of his birth, (its definitely not on the wiki timeline) as we have with most of our other friends. But we definitely know he was alive during the krogan rebellion 700-800 CE, because he says himself "right after the war(the rebellions)" he was forced to kill his father and leave Tuchunka. So really quick let's put this into perspective, the year of ME3 is 2186 CE, this knowledge already puts him at least between 1386-1486 years old, older than any asari by far. To make things even more interesting, when he killed Jarrod he was a tribe leader. This is only speculation, but I would imagine a tribe leader is not allowed to be in his "youth". So let's reference the asari again, asari definition of "youth" is much different than ours because of their long lifespans, even Liara at 105 says she is "barely more than a child". Since we've already proven a krogan (as long as he isn't killed) can easily outlast an asari, I would say the krogan definition is even more extreme, I'd say around 200-300 years old. I would also assume a tribe leader would have to be of a somewhat "mature" age, my guess is around 500, now at least putting firmly within the period of krogan population explosion. One more thing we definitely know is he doesn't know what a rachni looks like, evidenced if you bring him to peak 15 on Noveria. When you first encounter the rachni, your other squadmate will ask "what was that?", or something very similar, at which point he will reply "I dont't know, but someone on this mountain does." This means he either had to have been born at the end of the rachni wars or later (the war officially ended in 300 CE). So Wrex could possibly be around 1886 years old, nearly twice asari lifespan. Even more amazing is that this is in galatic standard time, which is 15.7% longer than earth time. Which could land him well within his second millenia by the standards we know today. Given this information, with the exceptions of warlord Okeer, Javik, and of course the reapers, Wrex could possibly and easily be the oldest character we know in the series. As I've played through all the games I've grown to love and care for all my friends and crew throughout the time, apart from vega who always came off as obnoxious and irritating to me, but Wrex is and always was my favorite. From my first moments with him I was intrigued with him, the way he's always far more intelligent than he let's on, the way he cares for his people, his sense of duty, his warriors spirit that put even his own kind to shame, with the exception of Grunts spirit, who I also loved. So what do you guys think? Shepheitz90 08:58, April 29, 2012 (UTC) :Certainly interesting, but I disagree with your estimate of 'maturity'. Liara's statement may well have just been a metaphor to help Shepard gain an accurate perspective of an asari's lifespan. Given the krogan propensity for bloodshed and Tuchanka's 'colourful' wildlife, the passage of succession could easily roll on very quickly, which means he may have just inherited the position through circumstance (aka the previous one getting killed). Phylarion 10:28, April 29, 2012 (UTC) That's a good point, definitely didn't take that into account. He's still ridiculously old though lol. I always knew he was old because of his story about him and his father right after the war, but until I looked at the timeline on here I hadn't realized how long ago that was, and I had a genuine holy crap moment. But now I have myself wondering, do we have any idea what a krogan's total lifespan is? Imagine how long a krogan who could always keep from being killed could live. Sorry I just think how the krogan have evoled is awesome, everything about their physiology is designed to give them an edge, its just fascinating to me. Shepheitz90 11:23, April 29, 2012 (UTC) :"Everything about their physiology is designed to give them an edge." :Not really, all the constant blathering on about reduntant this and that ignores reality. Having spare organs means that the primary ones have to be smaller and less effective by neccesity, so if only the primary organ functions until it is damaged, then it "goes offline to heal" while a secondary one does its work, this leaves the krogan at a disadvantage, because thier organs are all smaller and less effective than they should be to support an animal thier size. And if the primary, secondary and tertiary organs all work at all times, then having them is no different from just having individual ones (think of the way kidneys in humans work for example). :As for his age, did you ever consider that his stories are not entirely true? He is a mercenary, they arent always the most truthful of sorts. FeckThisShyt 05:01, May 2, 2012 (UTC) We've never dissected a krogan before. So how do you know how big their organs really are? And true, Krogans may sometimes lie, but Wrex is the honest kind. He would rather say he'd kick your ass than say he wants to be your friend. Look at him in ME2 and ME3, he is reforming the Krogan people (if he survived Virmire) and has not declared war on the other clans. Geth_Prototype 08:54, May 2, 2012 Thier organ size is simple. There is only a certain volume within thier torsoes that thier organs can occupy after all. When I said not true, I didnt mean he is lieing purposefully. Look at actual soldiers and actual mercenaries, they bullshit and tell nonsense, not because they think you will beleive it, but just because... Well not being a soldier I couldnt tell you why, maybe they find it funny. But every soldier I have known was the same, and media protrays mercs as being similar, I must admit, I have never met a merc. Anyway, what I am trying to get at is, just because wrex is honest where it matters doesnt mean he isnt fibbing for shits and giggles. FeckThisShyt 02:10, May 3, 2012 (UTC) I just wanted to add to the "maturity/age" bit. Take Grunt for example. Tank bred. Only a couple years old. Put in charge of an elite squad (provided he survived ME2). Why? Because he is one tough SOB. So from that you could gather that maturity is less about age and more about proving one's self. XC SUTTONx Alright FeckThisShyt, you know more than me on this, but there is still one thing to take into consideration. Krogans are aliens. We don't know how powerful their internal organs are. So while size limits the amount of organs, we do not know how powerful they are. Geth Prototype 15:49, May 7, 2012 (UTC) :It doesnt really matter. I just felt like pointing out that the whole "add redundant before anything and it makes it super!" approach to the krogan is nonsense and annoys me personally (though then again, most of the design choices of the Krogan would actually make them terrible in a modern battlefield :D). It is an off topic thing that doesnt really factor into the thread. :Hmm, the stay logged in feature didnt keep me logged, nvm :D. Please dont stick your hand up my jacksie lancer :* FeckThisShyt 21:08, May 7, 2012 (UTC) So from what I'm really gathering from this, now that we have some different opinions, is that we don't know really know enough about them to make any reasonable decisions about biology or even culture. The problem I'm seeing, even with my opinion, is that their evolution, and also their devolution is far too alien too make reasonable assumptions. I kinda wish we knew more about them before they blew themselves to hell and back. Anyways, I appreciate the participation, especially the lack of "your a fricken moron" flame posts. I like putting an idea out there for people to debate :) Shepheitz90 22:19, May 7, 2012 (UTC) Wrex is timeless. You are bacteria. --The Milkman | I always . 22:47, May 7, 2012 (UTC) :We cant really know anything about thier evolution or biology because they were slapped together piecemeal to fit a story by people with no understanding of biology beyond "The squashy bits are on the inside!". :All we have to go by is established lore that at least SOME krogan can live 1600+ years (Okeer). Though the only reference as far as I am aware to Okeer actually being that old is in the Cerberus Dossier, which may well be innacurate. FeckThisShyt 22:58, May 7, 2012 (UTC) ::A thought occured to me. Assuming there are no mistakes/falsehoods and Wrex/Okeer are actually as old as claimed. How much of that is actually due to the longevity of krogan? And how much is due to outside influences (ie medical stasis systems. They put the subject into stasis to prevent illness/wounds killing them, but would have the secondary effect of halting aging during thier use). Wrex and Okeer are both described as old, and are both warriors. It isnt unreasonable that they would take major wounds once or twice or 14 or so times in thier lives that would require extended periods of stasis treatment. FeckThisShyt 19:49, May 9, 2012 (UTC) Not sure if anyone brought it up before, but you age more "slowly" when traveling through space, especially at FTL speeds, than you do when on a planet. That said, assuming Wrex has done a great deal of space travel (which I'd assume he has), that would have retarded his biological aging somewhat. --Lee 95 02:19, May 10, 2012 (UTC) :That is only if you are traveling relativistically, and it is established in the lore that ships in ME dont do that (as they couldnt go FTL if they did) FeckThisShyt 04:02, May 10, 2012 (UTC) We don't know if they used stasis, but considering that almost every other race dislike the krogan and the krogan themselves not all too excited about science, it is rather doubtful that they used stasis technology. Plus considering that the krogans consider themselves warriors and above most weaknesses, getting medical treatment might be seen as a last resort... Now that I think about it, krogan have unusually strong regenerative abilities which would explain their long age. Major wounds would heal in a week or two or maybe even days. Age would be completely slowed to a crawl because the old cells are being replaced at a fast rate. Geth Prototype 16:07, May 10, 2012 (UTC) :Actually, being a fast healer doesnt neccesarily mean a longer life. Physical ageing (called senescence) is a product of DNA damage primarily. With organisms that can better repair thier DNA going through the senescence proccess slower, or in the case of some dont even undergo it. Due to the way the writers have set the krogan up, it isnt unfeasable that they have fairly advanced mechanisms for DNA repair. :Though, on the flip side, Krogans are depicted as evolving at a ridiculously obscene rate (ie beginning to evolve to counter the genophage within what I estimate to be less than 10 generations). And I am fairly sure that slow or minimal senescence would hinder that. Of course, I am no expert on either subject. FeckThisShyt 19:39, May 10, 2012 (UTC) Niether am I but I thought it was worth noting krogan had advanced healing. You are most likely right on the DNA but krogan could have evolved some advanced healing capabilities. Just throwing out the possiblity that the krogan could be able to. And I wasn't too sure on the evolution idea. Mordin made it sound as if the krogan were just adapting, not evolving, but I'm not an expert on biology. Geth Prototype 15:53, May 11, 2012 (UTC) :Adaptation through reproduction IS evolution :P. FeckThisShyt 21:21, May 11, 2012 (UTC) I believe most of what makes a krogan a krogan is due to their extreme evolution, life was on tuchanka was hard before they blew it up after all. I don't know if anyone has ever noticed but they've evolved in such a way that they have traits from both prey and predators, most likely they began as prey and progressed from there in the adapt or die ecosystem of tuchanka, they're hard spikey shells being their first adaption to ward off predators, along with their high birthrate to make up for those lost to said predators. You can really get insight into their double-sided evolution from looking at their faces, they have wideset eyes (prey), (I didn't realize how effective those wide eyes were until ME3 when, while talking to Grunt he looks away from me and then without turning his head, he turned his eye toward me and looked right at me. It actually spooked me the first time.) but the same token, if you look closely, they also have sighting grooves, giving them a predator aspect to they're wideset eyes. They also have the immense strength that most predators have, to an actual menacing degree in many cases (especially GRUNT). Then there's the keen sense of smell, grunt makes many comments that you would expect a talking dog to say about different areas. There are plenty more examples of how they managed to get both ends of the spectrum, but as I said its gotta be because of how quickly they evolve. Which makes the theory above about DNA repair rate totally plausible, although I also am no expert on biology, just watch a lot of those national geographic and animal planet shows :P God I'm such a nerd lol Shepheitz90 11:12, May 12, 2012 (UTC) I'd really like to get an accurate age range on Wrex. He's easily my favourite character of ME1. I wish he had played a bigger role in the following installments. Garrus & Legion are tied for a close second. Tali & Liara are great LI's and fun to banter with but when it comes to "hangin' with the guys", my aforementioned choices are where it's at. Hefe 17:09, May 17, 2012 (UTC) Yeah, listening to Wrex and his stories took me back to when I was a kid, listening to my grandad's war stories. Definitely feel ya on legion and Garrus too. Legion is the whole reason I reunited the Geth and Quarians, him and the mission where you learn more about their original war, it made seem to be an almost tragic race, not ruthless organic hating machines. It damn near broke my heart when he asked if he had a soul and then gives his life, but I digress, I've spun off topic. Shepheitz90 09:43, May 19, 2012 (UTC) :Agreed. I wish I could get Legion a lot earlier in ME2 and that he could be a squaddie in ME3. Garrus is just the right kind of "best friend" material that the game needed. The most poignant moments for me were Legion's sacrifice, Mordin's also, and shootin' stuff with Garrus. The LI moments are pretty good but it's the sense of comraderie that really makes the story worth it. I wish Wrex would have been able to join in ME2 and especially ME3. His missions and scenes were some of the best. "Shepard, you pull this off and I'm making you an honorary Krogan!"" Hefe 14:25, May 22, 2012 (UTC) ::Im not a big fan of the "FRENDSIHP!" parts of me2/3, and honestly dont even remember them being a part of 1 (arguably with Kiadan). They were far too forced. It felt like someone magically animated a lump of plastic and then commanded it to act as if it liked me, and then the character that is supposed to semi represent me reciprocates... ::Made it more creepy and offputting than anything else in my opinion. I dont know how people can like it. ::Hefe, this question may seem offensive, but it not intended as such. I am simply wondering how much interaction you have with people (friends particularily) in your day to day life? And the same for others who like the "bonding moments" in 2 and 3. Everyone I have ever asked in person feels that they are bizzare and wooden, and I am wondering whether it is something cultural (Me and those I asked being European and the game and you being north american), or something to do with experience socialising. FeckThisShyt 00:45, May 23, 2012 (UTC) ::Feck, I'm around people all day long and I'm really good about keeping up with my friends. The reason I found the "bonding moments" so poignant is because I had fully invested myself in the trilogy. I've read that people complain about it having become to linear but, with the exception of the ending of ME3, I've had no reason to complain. I enjoyed the ride and especially as a soldier, I know how fleeting relationships can be. Garrus is top because he has stuck with Shep through it all. I have maybe 3-4 friends I can say that about. Everybody else has a tendency to forget about me if I'm not in their immediate location. As far as them being "bizzare and wooden", I'm not inclined to argue the point with folks from the Old World who have a glorious past as far as writing goes. We colonials have a ways to go yet. In summation, I loved those moments that I spoke of because, in the end, it's a soldier's story and we value what we have. Yes, there were points when I was groaning to myself but they were far outnumbered by the good one. Also, no offense taken. I can have an intelligent discourse without resorting to anger because someone questioned what I think. :) Hefe 18:29, May 23, 2012 (UTC)